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Posted by giuco_piano_guy
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5/25/2005
16:33:06

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Subject: Italian Game

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After the line (Giuco Piano - Classical Variation)

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4 6.cxd4 Bb4+

How do you save the pawns on both d4 and e4?


Posted by misato
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5/25/2005
22:48:43

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7. Bd2 looks natural

Message:
and is quite okay (probably the best answer), Black will not be happy capturing the pawn on e4, just two example lines:
7. Bd2 Nxe4 8. Bxb4 Nxb4 9. Bxf7+ Kxf7 10. Qb3+ and Black is in problems.
7. Bd2 Bxd2+ 8. Nxd2 Nxe4 9. Nxe4 d5 10. Qe2 0-0 11. 0-0-0 with Black getting back his piece in the end, but also okay for White.

May the good moves be always with you.


Posted by indiana-jay
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5/26/2005
00:18:25

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Message:
The Giuoco is very very strong when used against or among amateur players. That’s because the concept of early development and the power of pieces advancement (space occupation and pressure) is rarely understood by lowly rated players. The black’s king is subject to direct attack from Black’s all pieces, except for the queen’s knight that is a bit underdeveloped (exchanging bishops on d2 is a way to bring the knight into play).

Taking e4 in general will open line for white’s kingside rook, and it is directly against the white’s king!

Qb3 is a thematic move here. It gives pressure on the white’s king via the f7 pawn. Both sides must be prepared for this move as this can also fork black’s pieces. Black’s Na5 is a thematic move against Qb3.

Another strategic thinking in Giuoco as white in closed variations (as is also in other games) imho is to have a flexibility of the pieces to shift the attack from queenside to kingside, by direct shifting of the bishop, the queen and the queenside rook. But this is more advanvce.

Try to understand the concept behind gambit play (We sacrifice a pawn not for nothing, but for something, right?), then you can try or exercise with the gambit variation of the giuoco piano (b2-b4). In simpler word, don't care too much on pawn, all you need to think is: pressurize and attack!
———
Anand Wins, Carlsen Leads at Pearl Spring — Viswanathan Anand of India, the world chess champion, began the second half of the Pearl Spring tournament in Nanjing, China, with a win, but he is still a full point behind the leader, Magnus Carlsen of Norway. Carlsen has 4.5 points; followed by Etienne Bacrot of France, who has 4; Anand with 3.5; Vugar Gashimov of Azerbaijan, 2.5; Veselin Topalov of Bulgaria, 2; and Wang Yue of China, 1.5. Monday, Anand beat Wang, who put up little resistance. The opening was a Queen’s Indian Defense and the queens were traded rather quickly. Anand, who was Black, traded a knight for a bishop, securing the bishop pair; he also had a better pawn structure. Anand soon won a pawn and then ...
Posted by indiana-jay
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5/26/2005
00:21:07

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typo errors

Message:
The Giuoco is very very strong when used against or among amateur players. That’s because the concept of early development and the power of pieces advancement (space occupation and pressure) is rarely understood by lowly rated players. The black’s king is subject to direct attack from Black’s all pieces, except for the queen’s knight that is a bit underdeveloped (exchanging bishops on d2 is a way to bring the knight into play).

Taking e4 in general will open line for white’s kingside rook, and it is directly against the black’s king!

White's Qb3 is a thematic move here. It gives pressure on the black’s king via the f7 pawn. Both sides must be prepared for this move as this can also fork black’s pieces. Black’s Na5 is a thematic move against white's Qb3.

Another strategic thinking in Giuoco as white in closed variations (as is also in other games) imho is to have a flexibility of the pieces to shift the attack from queenside to kingside, by direct shifting of the bishop, the queen and the queenside rook. But this is more advanvce.

Try to understand the concept behind gambit play (We sacrifice a pawn not for nothing, but for something, right?), then you can try or exercise with the gambit variation of the giuoco piano (b2-b4). In simpler word, don't care too much on pawn, all you need to think is: pressurize and attack!

———
Magnus Carlsen loses top ranking — Former world chess champion Vladimir Kramnik won the third Grand Slam Final in Bilbao, Spain. The double round robin featured four of the world's strongest chess grandmasters. The first two rounds nearly decided the tournament. Kramnik won both of his games while Magnus Carlsen of Norway lost twice. Kramnik drew his remaining four games to finish ahead of world chess champion Viswanathan Anand of India (who had one win and five draws), Carlsen (one win, two losses, three draws) and Alexey Shirov of Spain (two losses, four draws). Carlsen, ranked first in the world a month ago at 2826, has unofficially fallen to second at 2802 after poor results in the Olympiad and in Bilbao. Anand has ...
Posted by indiana-jay
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5/26/2005
00:23:22

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Oh, I give up :D

Message:
.
———
World’s No. 1 Chess Player Shows Signs of Growing Pains — Magnus Carlsen is such a formidable chess player, it is easy to forget that he is only 19. After he ascended to the No. 1 ranking a year ago, he went on such a roll — winning several of the world’s strongest chess tournaments — that it seemed no one could stop him. But in late September and early this month, in a span of nine games at the World Chess Olympiad and the Bilbao Final Masters, he lost five times, which is unheard of for a top-ranked chess player. When Anatoly Karpov and Garry Kasparov were ranked No. 1, they rarely lost five games in a year. Viswanathan Anand of India, the current world chess champion, has been similarly consistent. It is not that Carlsen, ...
Posted by trond
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5/26/2005
12:04:43

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No way to save both e and d pawns

Message:
But you could try 6. e5 , and then 7. cxd4 if he moves his knight on f6. Be aware that 6. e5 might be met by ... d5. At least the game will not be boring.

7. Bd2 is another option, when you get the pawn on f7 for the pawn on e4.

7. Nc3 is another line that you might try, were you often will get the attack at the cost of a pawn. There are also many ways for black to mess up in this line, but if he/she knows theory black is fine and might get a small advantage (but I doubt that will happen often in your games).
———
Israeli Sets World Record by Playing 523 People Simultaneously — Alik Gershon, a 30-year-old Israeli chess grandmaster, set a world record on Thursday by playing 523 people simultaneously in Rabin Square in Tel Aviv. The simultaneous display, or simul, took 19 hours. Gershon beat 454 of his opponents, drew with 58 and lost to 11, scoring 92 percent. For the record to be official, Gershon had to score at least 80 percent. The Jewish Journal reported that Natan Sharansky, the former Soviet dissident, was among Gershon’s opponents. Gershon broke the record held by Morteza Mahjoob, an Iranian chess grandmaster, who played against 500 people last year. The record has been raised many times in the last few years. In an interview afterward with ...
Posted by trond
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5/26/2005
12:16:02

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One correction

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There is one way to save both e and d pawns. If 6. e5 is met by 6. ...d5, then after 7. Bb5 Ne4 8. cxd4 Bb4+ 9. Bd2 you have kept you e and d pawns.
———
All Games Are Decisive at Pearl Spring — Friday was a remarkable day at the Pearl Spring chess tournament in Nanjing, China. All three games ended decisively and two of the games had interesting subtexts. One round after all the games were drawn, Round 3 was a chess bloodbath: Viswanathan Anand of India, the world chess champion, beat Veselin Topalov of Bulgaria, Magnus Carlsen of Norway beat Wang Yue of China and Étienne Bacrot of France overcame Vugar Gashimov of Azerbaijan. Carlsen now leads with 2.5 points, followed by Anand, who has 2, Bacrot with 1.5 points and the rest of the field, who each have 1 point. The most interesting game of the day was between Anand and Topalov who played a championship match earlier ...
Posted by indiana-jay
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5/26/2005
20:05:18

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trond,

Message:
I haven't seen yet where black can get a small advantage from this opening. In the gambit variation yes but is not enough for 1600 player to take advantage from. I can only guess that 2000 players left this opening because of the drawish ending, just like the Ruy Lopez? I found that reasons like having been studied thoroughly is a bit... irrational? The line misato suggested is I think the best black can get. Indeed it is a boring game. I'm using it simply for easy wins :) But I'm using it also against 2100+ player to see what is in this opening that makes highly rated players left.

Posted by ccmcacollister
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5/27/2005
00:17:48

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Is Giuoco analyzed to death ?

Message:
. id-indiana-jay , I think you hit it on the head. 2100+ players disliking the drawishness of many Giuoco lines, possibly boredom. [Of course they might alleviate that by playing the Wilkes-Barre attack! Tho I'm not one who believes in it, from the little I've seen of it.]
* * * * *
I would groan even in blitz games when 3.Bc4 was played when I was relying on 3...Bc5 in reply, and just hope it would be an Evans Gambit which interests me more... not a Giuoco. And its lines with d3 instead of c3 are even more tedious to me. So after wading thru many BL lines of the Two Knights that I don't care for, finally found one that I do like.
If you can get a higher rated player to enter a drawish var it may be beneficial in getting them to overplay the position trying to win. Sometimes boring a high-rated player may be of advantage to you then, but on the other-hand they may decide it would be 'interesting' to "test" their opponent for 120 moves when in a position they know they cant lose if they dont overplay it. That can be unpleasant. Especially over 2 years in a true Postal game! ... }8-)
But on the other-other-hand, if you want to reach an endgame and try your skills out there . . .
* * * *
Back in the 70's when I studied the Giuoco; most common was 7.Nc3 and 7.Bd2 was considered the less risky alternative. But in the Nc3 line 7...Nxe4 and capturing all the way thru with ...Nxc3 ...Bxc3 ... Bxa1 was winning for WT. Too greedy. Unless some improvement has shown up (if anyone was working on it ??! :)


Posted by giuco_piano_guy
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5/27/2005
05:41:57

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Message:
thanks, guys.