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Posted by ccmcacollister mailcafe.net 2/18/2006 20:31:16 Play online chess	Subject: Pronouncing GM's & Chess terms in English Message: I would like to know better how some GM names are pronounced, and sure some others would too! Please help us to build a Reference here if you can. Please do correct me if something is not right, or Question it if you have heard it otherwise than given by anyone here ... so we can get it as correct as possible. This is not something I am GOOD at, just INTERESTED in. SO: Please confirm those given here as well, if you can. The purpose of my thread is to learn along with you, or from you. Perhaps someone knows a good link for the phonetics ? Besides GM's, Opening Names and Chess Terms are quite appropriate for this thread. It is a very difficult subject tho, IMO. Especially names, since there is not always agreement about a particular player, for spelling it, even within English. And some sources try to change their spelling to make it more phonetic, etc. For EG, Petroff or Petrov ?! Nowadays it seems the ...ov has become the more popular interpretation for Russian names. Karpov, Kasparov, etc. *** Here the symbols used are as follows: @ =being used to denote the "schwa" sounding of letter "e" (which sounds nothing like the "a" in Schwa however!) ' =used to denote primary Emphasis, along with Capital Letters ' = a secondary Emphasis if the syllable is in Small Letters * Generality: I have read that most Russian names and Eastern European, of 3 or more syllables, tend to place the speaking Emphasis upon the Second syllable rather than on the First as English tends toward. Thus I believe it would be KasPAR'ov rather then KASparov (right? Or bad example?) LjuBOjevic (with silent "L"?) ? ******************** Pirc = I've heard it's like Pertz or Peertz to pronounce, rather than Perk or Peerk Ruy Lopez = RI Lopez pronounced like Rye bread or Wry humour. Alekhine = I've heard it Al YEK' ee in and AL' ek yin ??! ...Help ! Keres = ? Botvinnik = ? Euwe = something like oww(rhymes with you) wa or w@ !? Lautier = Lah' tee aa Collister = Cahl iss ter ... the cahl as in Phone Call ... }8-) Fianchetto (Italian)= I believe is correctly fee' an KEH' toe, yes? but is very commonly said fee an CHET' oh or fee an SHET' o by players. *
Posted by ccmcacollister mailcafe.net 2/19/2006 01:18:19 Play online chess	British Google has some pronunciation sites Message: Here is a short list of pronunciations found today. I notice that it shows Pirc, Euwe, Ljubojevic, and very surprisingly even Ruy Lopez pronounced differently than my prior source. (And I am almost certain my Ruy Lopez was already correct, as it was based upon phonics of Spanish language. Being WRY rather than RHU-EE, tho I hear it that way quite commonly is the USA. On the others, I just don't know if my prior source or the present was more accurate. This one also says the "J" is silent, not the "L" in Ljubojevic. -sigh- See what I mean about this being a tough topic?) Here is a short list: * * * * * * * * * * * * * Correspondence International Master (IM) Alapin (ah-LAH-pin), Semyon - Russian master Alekhine (ahl-YECK-een), Alexander - former world champion Antoshin (ahn-TOE-sheen), Vladimir - Soviet grandmaster Bernstein (BERN-shtyne), Ossip - Russian Grandmaster Bisguier (BIS-gire), Arthur - American Grandmaster Bogolyubov (bah-gah-LYU-bahf), Efim - German Grandmaster Boleslavsky (ba-leh-SLAV-skee), Isaak - Soviet Grandmaster Botvinnik (baht-VIHN-ik), Mikhail - former world champion Bronstein, David (brahn-SHTAYN) - Soviet Grandmaster Caissa (KI-E-sa) - goddess of chess Charousek (Kha-ROO-sek), Rudolf - Hungarian master Chernin (chair-NEEN), Alexander - Soviet Grandmaster Chiburdanidze (tchee-boor-dah-NEED-zeh)Maya-fmr wmn's WC Colle (KAW-lee), Edgard - Belgium champion Dvoretsky (dvahr-YET-skee), Mark - chess trainer En passant (ahn pah-SAHNT) - a special pawn capturing En prise (ahn preez) - piece hanging Euwe (UHR-vuh), Max - fmr WC Fedorowicz (Fe-do-RO-vich), John - American GM Gaprindashvili (gah-prin-dahsh-VEE-lee)Nona - fmr wmn's WC Gligoric (Glee-GO-rich), Svetozar - Yugoslav GM Gruenfeld (GREWN-feld), Ernst - Austrian GM Giuoco Piano (JOKE-o Pee-AH-no) - Italian Opening J'adoube (Zha-DOOB) - I adjust Janowsky (Yan-OF-sky), Dawid - Polish master Kasparov (Kah-SPAHR-off), Garry - former WC Kavalek (kuh-VAHL-ek), Lubomir - American GM Keres (CARE-ess), Paul - Soviet Grandmaster Khalifman (kha-leef-MAHN), Alexander - former FIDE WC Kmoch (k-MOTCH), Hans - chess master and writer Kortchnoi (kahrch-NOY), Viktor - Swiss GM Labourdonnais (lah-boor-do-NAY), Louis - 19th century player Lange (LAHN-guh), Max - German player and author Lein (Lane), Anatoly - American GM Ljubojevic (Luh-BOY-yuh-vitch), Ljubomir - Yugoslav GM Maroczy (muh-ROT-see), Geza - Hungarian Grandmaster Najdorf (NIGH-dorf), Miguel - Argentine Grandmaster Petroff (PEHT-roff), Alexander - Russian master Pirc (Peerts), Vasja - Yugoslav Grandmaster Polugaevsky (pah-loo-gah-YEV-skee), Lev - Soviet GM Reti (RAY-tee), Richard - Hungarian master Robatsch (RO-bahtsch), Karl - Austrian Grandmaster Ruy Lopez (Rue-y Lopeth) - 16th century Spanish priest and player Saemisch (SAME-ish), Friedrich - German Grandmaster Schliemann (SHLEE-mon), Adolf - German player Shirov (SHEER-ahf), Alexey - Soviet grandmaster Smyslov (smih-SLOEFF), Vasily - former world champion Spassky (SPAHSS-kee), Boris - former world chess champion Stein (Shtayne), Leonid - Soviet Grandmaster Sveshnikov (SVYESH-ni-kahff), Yevgeny - Soviet grandmaster Taimanov (tie-MAH-naff), Mark - Soviet grandmaster Tal (Tahl), Mikhail - former world champion Tarrasch (tuh-ROSH), Siegbert - German master Tartakower(tart-a-KO-Wer)Savielly-Austrain/Polish/Russian GM Tchigorin (chih-GOE-reen), Mikhail - Russian master Timman (TEE-mahn), Jan - Dutch Grandmaster Winawer (WIN-ah-wer), Szymon - Polish master Xie Jun (she-a-JUNE) - former world women's champion Zaitsev (ZITE-seff) Znosko-Borovsky(ZNOE-ska-bah-ROEV-skee)Yevgeny Rus.NM Zugzwang (TSOOKS-vahng), position where moving worsens it Zukertort (SOOK-er-tort), Johann - German master Zwischenzug (TSVEYE-shun-tsook) - in-between move *************************************** FOR a more complete listing, see another Great Site from BILL WALL (who also had that wonderful site of 1000+ Chess traps) ,which is at the following e-address ... -> www.geocities.com **********************************************
Posted by alberlie mailcafe.net 2/19/2006 01:38:18 Play online chess	ok, the ones I konw about... Message: Alekhine is actually completely wrong in our times. - There is a letter in russian, the "yo", which is written as a "e" with two dots above it, kind of like the german "ä, ü, ö,", just with an "e" instead. This letter is pronounced as "yó" with an open "o" (like the "o" in "jogging") - the "kh" is pronounced as a the "j" in the spanish rojo (red) or the "ch" in the german "Dach" (roof). So, actually, Alekhine is properly pronounced as "Alyochin" ("i" as in "grin") - Euwe: No, it doesn't rhyme with "you" :o) The "eu" is the same sound as the "oi" in "exploited". the "w" is a "sounding" w, not like in "wonderful" but like in "Video". Not as strong as "Fide", however :o) All together that makes "Oive". Accent on "Oi" - Botvinnik: as it is spelled, the "i" short as in "winning", the "v" as in "Video", accent on the first "i" - Lautier: say Loootijeee, accent on the last syllable - Leko: also with that weired "e" letter with dots. Pronounced as the german "ö" which again is pronounced kind of like the "u" in "burn" without the r-sound accompanying it. (yeah, I know that sounds like "butter, but without fat") You are right - it is KasPArov (not KasPAR'ov, though), but it almost for sure isn't LjuBOjevic but LjuboJEvic, BotVInnik, AlJOchine - so penultimate syllable. It's GORbatchov though, CHRUststov and WOLgograd, LENingrad etc. (don't ask me why) - You are right, fianchetto is with a hard "k" -sound ——— French chess star wins world junior — Maxime Vachier-Lagrave of France edged Sergei Zhigalko of Belarus to win the World Junior Chess Championship in Puerto Madryn, Argentina. Each scored an undefeated 10 1/2 -2 1/2 in the 82-player tournament, the most prestigious age-limited chess event. Only players born in 1989 or later were eligible. Vachier-Lagrave, 19, earned the chess grandmaster title in 2005 and won the French championship in 2007. He entered the tournament as the top seed with a rating of 2718 (23rd in the world), but his triumph was hardly guaranteed in an upset-filled melee that included 16 other grandmasters, including six rated above 2600. Zhigalko, 20, was seeded third ...
Posted by ionadowman mailcafe.net 2/19/2006 03:20:30 Play online chess	Alekhine, it seems... Message: ...pronounced his name 'Al-YEH-kheen' rather than the original 'Al-YOH-kheen' (i.e. dropping the 'umlaut' (so to speak) over the letter 'e'). In his view (I gather) the latter sounded "too Jewish", though quite why his Jewish ancestry bothered him, or was a problem for him, I don't know. As for city names like Leningrad or Volgograd (or Stalingrad for that matter) having their stress on the first syllable, my guess would be that they are derived from bi-syllabic names: Lenin, Volga (river), Stalin, these also having the stress on the first syllable. Am I close? In conversation a zillion years ago (1970), a friend mentioned ex-world champion, name of 'Oive'. Took me quite a while to figure out who the hell he was talking about... Cheers, Ion ——— Flu virus keeps competitors in check at Tal Memorial — Ten of the world elite are competing at Moscow's Tal Memorial, which ends today and is one of the strongest tournaments in chess history. But the winner in the chess event's first half was a flu virus which affected several grandmasters and encouraged a minimalist, cautious approach. Ukraine's Vasily Ivanchuk wore a face mask, and a high 80 per cent of the first five round games were drawn. The sickest chess player was Magnus Carlsen, 19, who had trained beforehand with Garry Kasparov and was expected to unleash some opening bombs in his campaign to become world No 1. But Norway's golden teen was close to defeat against Vlad Kramnik in the opening round and then ...
Posted by mattdw mailcafe.net 2/19/2006 03:27:00 Play online chess	Ionadowman Message: "though quite why his Jewish ancestry bothered him, or was a problem for him, I don't know" I believe it was because he was a Nazi sympathiser, which would explain it. ——— Kramnik Wins Tal Memorial, Carlsen Claims No. 1 Ranking — In a wild and exciting final round, Vladimir Kramnik of Russia, the former world chess champion, drew his last game to claim the 2009 Tal Memorial tournament title. Kramnik led from Round 6 on and finished with three wins, six draws and no losses. Vassily Ivanchuk of Ukraine, Kramnikâ€™s last round opponent, missed several chances to win and settled for a tie for second with Magnus Carlsen of Norway, who beat Peter Leko of Hungary. With his victory, Carlsen overtook Veselin Topalov of Bulgaria to become the worldâ€™s top-ranked chess player. At 18, Carlsen is the youngest chess player to be No. 1. Viswanathan Anand of India, the world chess champion, was in second place before ...
Posted by bucklehead mailcafe.net 2/19/2006 05:05:51 Play online chess	Alekhine Message: His name in Russian, as far as I can determine from the sources, is Александр Александрович Алехин. The pronunciation of his last name would thus appear to be fairly straightforward: al-YEKH-een. However, since he's dead and I'm too lazy to change my ways, he will always remain "AL-ek-hine" to me. And if anyone thinks I'm going to start saying "Peerts" instead of the quite obvious "Pirc," they're crazy. I might as well start saying "Ufimsev." ——— Norwegian, 18, Is Youngest to Be Ranked No. 1 at Chess — The chess world has a new No. 1 player, Magnus Carlsen of Norway, and he is only 18 years old â€” the youngest chess player ever to hold the rank. On Saturday, Mr. Carlsen beat Peter Leko, a Hungarian player now ranked No. 11, in the final round of a chess tournament in Moscow. Though Mr. Carlsen only tied for second in the tournament, his performance was good enough for him to edge out Veselin Topalov of Bulgaria for the top world ranking. Mr. Topalov, 34, did not compete in the tournament. Mr. Carlsen, who turns 19 on Nov. 30, is only the seventh No. 1-ranked chess player since the ranking system began in 1970. Garry Kasparov, the Russian former world chess champion ...
Posted by alberlie mailcafe.net 2/19/2006 06:57:43 Play online chess	ever heard Kasparov... Message: speak about Alekhine? He always says Alyokhine. ——— Kramnik Retains Lead at Tal Memorial; Carlsen Notches First Win — With one round to go in the Tal Memorial chess tournament in Moscow, Vladimir Kramnik of Russia holds a half-point lead over Viswanathan Anand of India, the world chess champion, and Vassily Ivanchuk of Ukraine. Magnus Carlsen of Norway is alone in fourth after beating Ruslan Ponomariov in Round 8. Kramnik has held the lead since Round 6, despite being held to draws in the last two games. In Round 8, he launched a sacrificial attack against Peter Leko of Hungary, but Leko was never in any real danger and simply returned the extra material to achieve a balanced position, after which Kramnik forced a draw by perpetual check. Carlsen, the top seed in the chess tournament ...
Posted by mattdw mailcafe.net 2/19/2006 13:32:41 Play online chess	Bucklehead Message: I agree! hehe. I will keep pronouncing Pirc & Alekhine how the would be in English until I get truly fed up of people telling me to say it properly. :P
Posted by ccmcacollister mailcafe.net 2/19/2006 16:41:30 Play online chess	Hmmm; Alekhine in Hawaiian . . . Message: Wouldn't it be something like: ################### Al e' ka HEE' nee ?! ##### ** * * *** ##### #### }8-D ########
Posted by bucklehead mailcafe.net 4/16/2006 17:57:16 Play online chess	Not to beat a dead horse... Message: ...(indeed, one that is very nearly buried), but I came across this in the ChessCafe archives ( -> www.chesscafe.com ), and it sounds authoritative to me. No rumors or unsourced stories about Alekhine, but a realistic portrait by a man who knew him intimately: Hans Kmoch. Here's the relevant quote, in the midst of a fascinating article: "While reading those articles, I remembered that Alekhine used to get angry if his name was pronounced Al-YOH-khin, the way Russians sometimes pronounced it. The correct Russian pronunciation, he said, was Al-YEH-khin, explaining that the name was derived from that of a tree (‘alyesha’) that grew abundantly near one of his family’s estates. “Al-YOH-khin,” he claimed, was a Yiddish distortion of his name, like Trotsky for Troitsky or Feigl for the German Vogel. But strangely, no one whom I ever heard pronounce the name Al-YOH-khin was Jewish. One was a friendly elderly gentleman named (I believe) Tereshchenko. A Russian émigré like Alekhine, he had been named to the position of Alekhine’s second in the 1929 match against Bogolyubov mainly to please the world champion. He immediately antagonized Alekhine by addressing him as “Gospodin [Mr.] Alyokhin.” "
Posted by ionadowman mailcafe.net 4/17/2006 04:02:42 Play online chess	Sad, isn't it? Message: A Nazi sympathizer he might have been, but I read somewhere that in the chess tournaments organised by the Nazis he was something of a hero to any Jews or Slavs among the spectators. I wonder if he knew this, or whether it would have mattered to him?
Posted by ccmcacollister mailcafe.net 4/17/2006 04:19:49 Play online chess	Alekhine ... Message: I don't know that I believe him to be a Nazi sympathizer. Since it has come up several times ... the most recent info I have seen was that he was more or less held in Germany by the Nazi's and forced to make radio broadcasts. Someone who knew him stated that he did not in fact write broadcast info either. I'm sorry I cannot recall my source for this. But it might explain why they cast him a hero, or perhaps as one who shared their plight? Of course I wasnt there, so cannot confirm or deny :( This would be an interesting topic to start a thread tho. About Alekhine. If it is not considered a political matter and deleted or banned. I'll start a thread just about Alekhine, and leave it to others as to where and how softly they tread, but remember GK dislike of the political. Perhaps as a historical matter tho . . . it might be approached with a bit of care ?!