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| From | Message | Posted by mattdw
mailcafe.net
3/03/2006
01:48:23
Play online chess |  Subject: To use the DB & Analysis Board, or not to use...
Message:
I have been playing chess now for about 5 months and I was wondering whether at this stage I should be using the database/analysis board at all? At the moment I prefer to choose my move prior to looking at the DB and possibly alter it if it looks like a very bad idea rather than choose a move from the DB itself - which I don't like the idea of, which I think would defeat the point of playing! But I don't know what is the ideal solution, is it better to cut out the DB altogether at this point and try and learn from my mistakes so I may find out from experience why certain moves were not played? (Things are more memorable this way, for me at least) Or do you think it is actually possible to learn a lot from seeing moves played by others in the same situation? I should point out that I currently have no real formal training in openings, just experience from my games so far.
A similar kind of question applies to the analysis board, I aim to be proficient at OTB which would suggest cutting out the analysis board altogether (or at most to just check that a certain combination should work as planned), what would do you suggest?
Thanks
Matt
| Posted by ionadowman
mailcafe.net
3/03/2006
02:50:37
Play online chess | DB and analysis board...
Message:
...They're there to be used. I often look at the DB - more to see what has been played than specifically to select a move, but I admit that occasionally my choice is based on what I've found there. Once or twice, my choice is based on what I haven't found there. By the way, you might have noticed a feature whereby you can select on the basis of games in which at least one of the players ratings was 1900+? Possibly the best use for the DB is to decide on a list of 'candidate moves' from which to determine the final choice. As for the analysis board, I use it if I'm feeling too lazy to fetch my chessboard. You can bet your boots that the really strong players on GK make good use of every legitimate resource thay have available to them (including time!) - you can do no less. Both are valid resources. Use them if you want.
Cheers,
Ion
| Posted by cascadejames
mailcafe.net
3/03/2006
19:30:48
Play online chess | Ion?
Message:
" By the way, you might have noticed a feature whereby you can select on the basis of games in
which at least one of the players ratings was 1900+?"
How do you do that? I don't find that choice. TIA.
———
Vlad Kramnik and Magnus Carlsen go toe-to-toe at Wijk aan Zee — Corus Wijk aan Zee, the most popular event on the chess calendar, ends tomorrow with ex-champion Vlad Kramnik and the world No1 Magnus Carlsen competing for the lead in the closing rounds. Kramnik won their individual game impressively, but the 19-year-old Norwegian has the easier finish. Carlsen is not yet dominating his chess peers in the style of Bobby Fischer and Garry Kasparov at their peaks, but he is already the man to beat. The reigning world chess champion Vishy Anand has played an uncharacteristically low-key tournament, drawing his first nine games. Nigel Short, in his strongest event for years, has struggled in some games but missed a clear win against Kramnik. ...
Posted by mattdw
mailcafe.net
3/04/2006
01:46:31
Play online chess |
Message:
Thanks for the advice Ion, I guess I'll use them when I'm playing in the Tournaments as my opponents will almost certainly be doing the same. But for the other games I don't know, I'm still unsure whether in the long run it will be better to use them or not - would it be a crutch or a learning aid? I'm not hugely worried about by my short term performance really, it's long term improvement that I am aiming for (but in the shortest possible time! ;) ) if people think that it would be better for long term improvement to stop using them then that's what I'd rather do. Thanks,
Matt
———
Vladimir Kramnik edges ahead — Vishy Anand may have taken Vladimir Kramnik’s world title but he did him a favour in tenth round at Corus chess tournament when he broke his run of nine draws and defeated the co-leader Alexey Shirov. It was Shirov’s first defeat and Kramnik’s nervy draw with Vassily Ivanchuk gave him the sole lead on 7/10 with three to play but as well as Shirov he has world number one Magnus Carlsen in hot pursuit. Carlsen defeated Sergey Karjakin in what your correspondent found a mystifying game in which Karjakin, playing white seemed to have the initiative and better placed pieces but was soon worse. So the chess tournament is set up perfectly for ...
Posted by ionadowman
mailcafe.net
3/04/2006
13:50:38
Play online chess | cascadejames...and mattdw
Message:
Once you click on games DB, there is a 'top' option. This brings you back to move 1.
Then scroll down the screen a bit and you will find the '1900+ games' option. Click on that, then just click through the moves until you get the position you want, or you find that the moves to reach the position aren't available.
I haven't found any way of accessing it except by this 'longhand' method, though. It would be kinda nice if you could immediately select 1900+ at the position you want to look at.
Your concern, mattdw, that the DBs could become a crutch rather than a learning aid is a very reasonable one. You could use the DB in ways other than to select candidate moves or to determine your choice - after the game to compare your play with others' say. This might indeed be a better use of the DB.
Cheers,
Ion
———
Kramnik claims Carlsen — Vladimir Kramnik played what he described as feeling like “his greatest ever game” to defeat Magnus Carlsen in the ninth round of the Corus chess tournament at Wijk aan Zee. The former world chess champion moved into the joint lead with Alexey Shirov and avenged his defeat at Carlsen’s hands at last December’s London Chess Classic. Scores with four to play: 1-2 Shirov, Kramnik 6.5/9; 3-4 Carlsen, Karjakin 5.5; 5-7 Ivanchuk, Dominguez, Nakamura 5; 8-9 Leko, Anand 4.5; 10 Caruana 3.5; 11-13 Tiviakov, Short, Van Wely 3; 14 Smeets 2.5; ...
Posted by cascadejames
mailcafe.net
3/04/2006
14:12:11
Play online chess | Thanks Ion!
Message:
And now I also see how to use my personal data base.
———
Shirov in Sveshnikov — Vladimir Kramnik made his move in the eighth round of the Corus chess tournament at Wijk aan Zee and defeated the US chess champion Hikaru Nakamura to join Magnus Carlsen in second place. Alexey Shirov remains half a point ahead with five to play and he tested Magnus Carlsen’s chess opening preparation by challenging him to repeat the line that decided last year’s MTel tournament when Carlsen lost badly. A fascinating game. In the Sveshnikov Sicilian Black often sacrifices pawns for activity. White is three pawns ahead at the end but cannot coordinate. ...
Posted by wolstoncroft1
mailcafe.net
3/04/2006
22:38:46
Play online chess | I once had a theory
Message:
I tried to find positins in the DB where the majority percentage played led to bad positions, so that maybe my opponent would go along with the moves in the database and all the sudden see that blacks reply on move 21 (or whatever) left white with a 10% winning chance.
It didnt work, I ended up playing positions i didnt know well, and my opponents opted for other lines.
Thats how i used to use it. And why i stopped!!
lol
g'day
———
Hikaru beats leader at Corus Chess Tournament — Let's start with an update to the Corus Chess Tournament, which is getting more exciting by the day. It had seemed that U.S. chess champion Hikaru Nakamura's bid to win the event might be slipping away. Coming into the seventh round Saturday, Hikaru had made three straight draws. He was tied for second place, 1.5 points behind the leader, Alexei Shirov of Spain. Not a bad showing, but the 22-year-old New Yorker has ambitions of winning the chess tournament and clearly establishing himself as one of the world's elite players. So for Hikaru, Saturday was crucial. He was paired against Shirov and had the advantage of playing the white pieces. Here was a chance to cut ...
Posted by peppe_l
mailcafe.net
3/07/2006
10:55:12
Play online chess | IMO
Message:
It depends on how you use the DB. If you choose some move based on percentages, without really understanding its purpose (or WHY its better than any other move), chances are it wontt help you at all - neither with learning or with competition.
| Posted by ionadowman
mailcafe.net
3/07/2006
12:00:30
Play online chess | Agreed...
Message:
...It can lead you down some very gloomy paths at that, when you find after following a line that suddenly the opponent has, among a lot of low-scoring options, one that has a high rate of success. Bummer, Man! Naturally, that's the one that gets played... !-(
Cheers,
Ion
| Posted by peppe_l
mailcafe.net
3/07/2006
13:36:10
Play online chess | Heh
Message:
Fortunately, statistics are only statistics ;-)
| Posted by brilliance
mailcafe.net
3/07/2006
23:46:08
Play online chess |
Message:
In short, the more time and energy put into a game, the better the performance. A DB can be used, but not without contemplating moves.
The AB feature is very dependable on how it's used, at what level it's used and as a personal preference: "why do you play chess?".
| Posted by obsteve
mailcafe.net
3/09/2006
05:04:46
Play online chess | flip board
Message:
the 'flip board' option is my favourite new toy, and I believe using it has improved my ability to forcast opponents' moves
| Posted by swains
mailcafe.net
3/18/2006
07:24:00
Play online chess |
Message:
Does anybody know how often the DB is updated? I noted it at the same number of games for sometime now. Thanks.
| Posted by gwalchmai
mailcafe.net
3/18/2006
14:21:14
Play online chess | Which one?
Message:
The main GK database I would assume is updated every time a game finishes that meets the required parameters, but I must admit I don't check the total games number very often. If it is your own personal database, you have to request the update.
As to the orginal question, I would suggest using the DB in moderation, and the analysis board often, although I'm hardly a sterling example of a top chess player. I tend to use the DB if I encounter an opening I either haven't met before or have met only once or twice and in a dim and distant psat just to get an idea of the likely lines that will result. The analysis board onthe other hand I use quite a bit but more often in the middle-endgame. I'm not capable of holding more than a couple of moves in my head at a time unless I have an actual proper board in front of me, not one on a screen, and it can be quite helpful to see the board exactly how it might be in five or six moves time, especially if the moves will be forced, and especially with the new changes that save the moves you enter into it.
| Posted by ccmcacollister
mailcafe.net
3/19/2006
02:42:00
Play online chess | mattdw
Message:
As far as the analysis board ... Why not work it all out as far as you can see, without it. In order to strengthen your otb analysis. But then use the analysis board to recheck and extend your prior analysis without it? Seems you would then get the best of both ways.
I do understand your concern. When I first began to check over some games with computer review, it made my own analytical ability decline, from developing an accustomness to laziness. IMO, laziness and wishful thinking are two of the 'deadly sins' of otb play. Which brings to mind a possible new thread on that !?
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