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| From | Message | Posted by andy94
mailcafe.net
11/16/2008
08:02:21
Play online chess |  Subject: A chess saying...
Message:
"White plays to win, black plays to draw."
I don't remember who said it, but it's an interesting thing to talk about.
What do you think?
| Posted by ionadowman
mailcafe.net
11/16/2008
12:36:32
Play online chess | Is it indeed attributable to one person?...
Message:
I seems to have been the approach taken by many chess masters, but certainly not all. Judging by the recent World Championship match, Vishy Anand had no idea of taking such a line. Bobby Fischer would have thought such an approach pusillanimous.
I much prefer the attitude of one Efim Bogoljubov, who flourished in the '20s and '30s: "When I have White, I win because I have the White pieces; when I have Black, I win because I am Bogojubov."
Cheers,
Ion
| Posted by ccmcacollister
mailcafe.net
11/16/2008
14:02:17
Play online chess | I have always liked Bogo's~! Very masterful :))
Message:
Corollaries:
Alekhine: "When I am WT I win because I am Alekhine, with black I win because you Are Bogojubov".
Mine: "When I am White I win because You are not Bogojubov, with black I win because Bogojubov is deceased and only had an hour to get to the board. "
{ "Wait a minute, I won? What happened??" }
}8-)
About drawing with black, winning with WT. Obviously it Wins any single match. Besides that it is often used in RR or double RR play particularly amongst near equals and in long events. In Swiss play, especially short ones, it is not so commonly sought.
There it might be more like: Crush the lower rated because you are higher rated; Win with WT among your peers; and Let's see about winning with black among peers and betters since I hope to know my chosen defense better, but if not perhaps I will grace them (aka "bail out" :) with a draw . . .
———
Chess Notes — Here is a product of the World Chess Cup, a game of maneuver from the fourth round in which Peter Svidler, a chess veteran and winner of the Soviet Championship five times, subdues Arkadij Naiditsch of Germany. Games that start quietly inevitably result in noisy clashes. In this game Svidler as Black develops his pieces to the third rank, depending on ultimate counter play. It is interesting that he allows Bh6 against his King side, and simply ignores the cleric. White gets no advantage from this Bishop, which is later eliminated. The critical confrontation occurs after Svidler turns to the attack with 23 f5. Naiditsch responds passively by reconnoitering his Knight. He gives up ...
Posted by kansaspatzer
mailcafe.net
11/16/2008
14:04:45
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Message:
I think that such an approach is more applicable at a higher level than most of us are at. Certainly, when you look at the world championship matches such as the one just played between Kramnik and Anand, the notion of who was White and who was Black was critical to match strategy (and it was a very big deal when Anand won as Black.) At my level - I'm around 1600 both on here and OTB, I'm going to play for a win any time I'm playing somebody unless they're much higher rated than I am, in which case I may head for drawish lines, knowing that heading for a technical endgame will likely play into the hands of someone with more endgame experience than myself.
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Children 1, Astronaut 0 — In the end, the astronaut could not outwit the children. Wednesday, Greg Chamitoff, an American astronaut, resigned a long-running correspondence chess game against a group of children from Stevenson Elementary School in Bellevue, Wash. They had started the game in September 2008 while Chamitoff was stationed aboard the International Space Station. The game had been the idea of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. Officials at the agency had asked the United States Chess Federation about having Chamitoff play a game of chess against some of the federation’s members. Stevenson was chosen as an opponent because the school ...
Posted by cascadejames
mailcafe.net
11/16/2008
20:39:57
Play online chess | Better with Black?
Message:
For reasons that are unclear to me, I have consistently had a better record on Gameknot with
black. So I am skeptical about the application of the rule to those of use who are not Class A
players or higher.
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London Chess Classic: Kramnik's lesson in positional play — McShane-Kramnik, London 2009. Black to play. With two rounds to go in the London Chess Classic, the Norwegian chess prodigy Magnus Carlsen looks set to win the tournament. Vladimir Kramnik, his main rival, is in second place. In this game from round three, Kramnik displayed his refined positional understanding. RB I've been following this tournament online, but I missed this particular game, and more's the pity because I can't find a good continuation for Black. Clearly Kramnik has the better game – the two centralised knights look very threatening – but how to convert Black's positional superiority into a winning position? 1...Nxd2 2 Nxd2 doesn't lead anywhere and ...
Posted by lighttotheright
mailcafe.net
11/16/2008
21:35:48
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Message:
I sometimes play for a draw, even when I'm white. I drew a 2300 + player recently doing just that. I was surprised to get an early lead, but I knew it wasn't enough to win. When I got a chance to trade Queens, I took it. I had to give back some material to force a draw, but it worked.
I sometimes lose a game because I push things too far - trying to force a win.
———
Gelfand Wins World Chess Cup — Boris Gelfand of Israel is the 2009 World Cup champion. Gelfand won the title by beating Ruslan Ponomariov of Ukraine in a playoff on Monday. The first four games of the playoff were rapid games (25 minutes per player per game) and Gelfand took the lead by winning the second game. But Ponomariov, with his back to the wall, won the last rapid game to tie the match up again. The playoff then went to blitz chess (5 minutes per player per game) and Gelfand once again took the lead by beating Ponomariov in the first game when he managed to trap Ponomariov’s queen in 21 moves. Ponomariov rallied again, winning the second game. But Gelfand won the third and Ponomariov ...
Posted by kansaspatzer
mailcafe.net
11/16/2008
22:34:56
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Message:
An attitude I would generally find more profitable would be "keeping the draw in hand" rather than "outright playing for the draw". Trying to push for a miniscule advantage is easier than pushing outright for a draw, in which you aren't able to claim any positional advantages, which can be tricky since playing for a draw tends to be harder than it sounds.
———
A tragic knight — The London Chess Classic, a fabulously organized eight-player elite tournament, shaped up as a confrontation between two great chess grandmasters, the top-rated Magnus Carlsen of Norway and the former world chess champion Vladimir Kramnik of Russia. By the luck of draw, they met in the first round, and Carlsen won. The Norwegian GM was still in a clear lead on Sunday with four points in five rounds, a full point ahead of Kramnik. U.S. chess champion Hikaru Nakamura drew four games and lost one. The tournament concludes Tuesday. The Carlsen-Kramnik duel looked like a perfectly played game by the Norwegian, who took advantage of Kramnik's stranded knight. "If one piece is ...
Posted by blake78613
mailcafe.net
11/17/2008
04:55:41
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Message:
When I am Black, I am happy to repeat a line that lead to a draw, and will keep repeating it until someone finds a way to obtain an advantage. While with White if I draw with a line, I will start looking for a different line.
| Posted by ionadowman
mailcafe.net
11/17/2008
12:29:51
Play online chess | Back in '83 ...
Message:
... I got roped into a six-round Easter tournament, having played just one game (in a telegraph match) in the previous 12 months. Naturally I wasn't in form, having made no preparation. In the event Black won all six of my games!
On reflection, I suppose that wasn't such a good occasion to depart from my usual English Opening to try opening lines I hadn't played before. That wasn't very clever... :(
Cheers,
Ion
| Posted by farhadexists
mailcafe.net
11/18/2008
08:07:12
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Message:
At my level (1500-1600), I don't think it matters, as almost every single game is decided by a blunder of some sort, mine or my opponent's.
Then again, I've won 60% of my games as White here on GK, and 53% as Black, so maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about.
Farhad
| Posted by wulebgr
mailcafe.net
11/19/2008
06:16:37
Play online chess | another
Message:
Black is Okay
The title of a series of books, and allegedly a famous statement by some player--I don't know who.
| Posted by ketchuplover
mailcafe.net
11/19/2008
06:24:03
Play online chess |
Message:
Chess is a theoretical draw-Bobby Fischer
| Posted by andy94
mailcafe.net
11/19/2008
07:28:51
Play online chess |
Message:
Thanks ketchuplover, lack that quote of Bobby!
| Posted by fmgaijin
mailcafe.net
11/19/2008
10:50:48
Play online chess | Andras Adorjan, wulebgr
Message:
EOM
| Posted by markb56
mailcafe.net
12/04/2008
11:14:19
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Message:
I have a terrible time playing as White both on GK and OTB. My win record as Black is about 20% higher both on GK and OTB. I prefer playing with a plan (e.g positional) rather than attack. It also depends on the opponent -- young players seem to have a harder time grinding it out than older players, as they need constant stimulus to stay interested.
| Posted by ionadowman
mailcafe.net
12/04/2008
11:50:06
Play online chess | I guess it depends...
Message:
... on what you find "stimulating" enough to keep your interest. Consider that you are down a pawn in a rook ending; possibly - even probably - a draw, but your opponent has whatever the winning chances going. What keeps you interested enough to play the thing down to its last gasp - lose or draw? It could, of course, be your place in a tournament - the possibility of a "grade prize" (if such things are offered), or, since your opponent has 200 ELO rating points more, there's the "moral victory" of acquiring a significant boost to your own rating and an addition to your chess CV.
Then, there's the intellectual exercise of making the best of the situation, finding whatever tactics there might be in the position, of setting your opponent problems. The same goes if you're on the upside of such an endgame.
Maybe it's worth thinking of it in these terms: When down, you are extracting a draw from a game probably lost; when ahead, you are extracting a win from a game probably drawn! Grinding out the win is not always - I find it's not even usually - lacking in interest.
Cheers,
Ion
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