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Wild name, real matters
desertfox
♡ 37 ( +1 | -1 )
Philidor's defense Recently blitz players introduced against me a move which was not theoretical. Some lost miserably but some beat me. Who has analysis about that move and what comes after it.
The moves are: 1) e4, e5, 2) ktf3, d6, 3) d4 bg4.
The last move is the one I speak about. It is supposed to be inferior. I will appreciate every line stemming from that move.
Desertfox
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cyrano
♡ 37 ( +1 | -1 )
Morphy's game The bad reputation of the line started with a famous Morphy's game.
Morphy - Allies
Paris, 1858
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 Bg4 4.dxe5 Bxf3 5.Qxf3 dxe5 6.Bc4 Nf6 7.Qb3 Qe7 8.Nc3 c6 9.Bg5 b5 10.Nxb5 cxb5 11.Bxb5+ Nbd7 12.0-0-0 Rd8 13.Rxd7 Rxd7 14.Rd1 Qe6 15.Bxd7+ Nxd7 16.Qb8+ Nxb8 17.Rd8#
Later Blackburne tried to revive the variation with a countergambit: after 4.dxe5 he played 4...Cd7!? but without great success.
zdrak
♡ 30 ( +1 | -1 )
Here's a nice review of the 4...Nd7 gambit:
www.chesscafe.com/text/mcgrew07.pdf
It's a good gambit for an occasional surprise against a fellow amature player. On high levels, it's not seen, and probably for a good reason.
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white_disc
♡ 34 ( +1 | -1 )
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 d6
3. d4 Bg4
4. dxe4 Bxf3
5. Qxf3 exd4
6. Bc4 Nf6
7. Qb3
This earns at least a pawn (b-pawn)
I think the best continuation for black is not Bg4, but Nd7. Some say Nf6. I normally will take the pawn, and perhaps transpose to a Scotch game looka-like. For philidor defence, the f7 square is especially vulnerable.
Just my personal experience.
Thanks, regards.
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desertfox
♡ 39 ( +1 | -1 )
Cyrano grazie per la rapidissima risposta. I usually played 8)Qxa7. This allows the answer Qb4. Here I got a pawn more and usually won. Now I will see why Morphy preferred another move. He already played
6. Bc4 instead of my 6. Qb3 (preferring to develop another piece before doing anything else).
I am sure the next blitz games with this variant are going to be easier for me.
Desertfox
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werwolf
♡ 5 ( +1 | -1 )
3...Nf6 or 3...dxe4 In my opinion the best continuatipns for black are 3...Nf6 or dxe4
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atrifix
♡ 32 ( +1 | -1 )
After 7. Qb3 Qe7 8. Qxb7? is a mistake, since 8. Bxf7+ Qxf7 9. Qxb7 wins an exchange and at least a pawn. Morphy preferred 7. Nc3, developing at all costs, and most claim this move is better, but I have doubts about whether White's position is all that much better after 7... c6 8. Bg5 b5 9. Nxb5 Qb4+! (instead of 9... cxb5?).
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atrifix
♡ 32 ( +1 | -1 )
After 7. Qb3 Qe7 8. Qxb7? is a mistake, since 8. Bxf7+ Qxf7 9. Qxb7 wins an exchange and at least a pawn. Morphy preferred 7. Nc3, developing at all costs, and most claim this move is better, but I have doubts about whether White's position is all that much better after 7... c6 8. Bg5 b5 9. Nxb5 Qb4+! (instead of 9... cxb5?).
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cyrano
♡ 56 ( +1 | -1 )
Morphy's game A little analysis of Morphy's opening:
1.e4 e5 2.Cf3 d6 3.d4 Ag4?! 4.dxe5 Axf3?! 5.Dxf3
[Also interesting is Pachman suggestion 5.gxf3 dxe5 6.Dxd8+ Rxd8 7.f4 with positional advantage for white]
5...dxe5 6.Ac4 Cf6?!
[6...Df6 looks better, but after 7.Db3 Ac5 (7...Cd7!?it's very interesting) 8.0-0 (8.Dxb7!?) 8...Ab6 9.a4 a5 10.Cc3 Ce7 11.Ae3 Cd7 12.Tad1 white has strong pressure; 6...Dd7!? deserves consideration]
7.Db3 De7
[The only move. If 7...Dd7 8.Dxb7 Dc6 9.Ab5] 8.Cc3!
[Also good is 8.Axf7+ but after 8...Dxf7 9.Dxb7 Ac5! 10.Dxa8 0-0 black has some counterplay due to better development]
8...c6 9.Ag5 b5?!
[An improvment could be 9...Dc7]
10.Cxb5! and now if 10...Db4+ simply 11.Cc3 Dxb3 12.axb3 with a big advantage for white
cyrano
♡ 57 ( +1 | -1 )
Morphy's game
Sorry, I wrote with Italian notation!
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 Bg4?! 4.dxe5 Bxf3 5.Qxf3
[Also interesting is Pachman suggestion 5.gxf3 dxe5 6.Qxd8+ Kxd8 7.f4 with positional advantage for white]
5...dxe5 6.Bc4 Nf6?!
[6...Qf6 Looks better, but after 7.Qb3 Bc5 (7...Nd7!? it's very interesting) 8.0-0 (8.Qxb7!?) 8...Bb6 9.a4 a5 10.Nc3 Ne7 11.Be3 Nd7 12.Rad1 white has strong pressure; 6...Qd7!? deserves consideration]
7.Qb3 Qe7
[The only move. If 7...Qd7 8.Qxb7 Qc6 9.Bb5]
8.Nc3!
[Also good is 8.Bxf7+ but after 8...Qxf7 9.Qxb7 Bc5! 10.Qxa8 0-0 black has some counterplay due to better development]
8...c6 9.Bg5 b5?!
[An improvment could be 9...Qc7]
10.Nxb5! and now if 10...Qb4+ simply 11.Nc3 Qxb3 12.axb3 with a big advantage for white
desertfox
♡ 80 ( +1 | -1 )
Cyrano Very conscientious of you to repeat the moves for the benefit of those who can't read Italian notation. For me its the easiest part in chess. The other day while playing blitz with an Italian guy, he didn't believe I am from Israel. Said my Italian is too good for an Israeli. He didn't know I studied translation 4 years in Switzerland and my best friend was Franco from Italy (mediocre chess player but a good friend).
About Ludek Pachman's suggestion: now that you mention it, I had more success with this variant than with the one I asked about in my first posting.
There is another variant I could use your comments about: 1) e4, e5, 2) ktf3, d6 3)d4, exd 4) qxd ktc6
5) Bb5 , Bd7 6) BxKt , BXB 7) Kt c3. What happens next. Does white has other moves at move 7?
Thanks in advance,
Desertfox
zdrak
♡ 52 ( +1 | -1 )
Strictly speaking, this is not Philidor's defense - this position is cathegorized as Ruy Lopes, and it's usually reached by the move order:
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 d6 4.d4 exd4 5.Qxd4 Bd7 6.Bxc6 Bxc6 7.Nc3
Next, both sides usually develop, white castles Q-side and black castles K-side. White is slightly better due to controlling more space and being better developed - although black's bishop pair is a compensation.
Another option for white is 7.Bg5 - but more often than not it merely amounts to a transposition - 7.Bg5 Nf6 8.Nc3 is the same as 7.Nc3 Nf6 8.Bg5
desertfox
♡ 47 ( +1 | -1 )
ZDRAK This is actually a transposition into the Steinitz defense in the Ruy lopez. White enjoys a great freedom of maneuvre. By the way categorized is the correct spelling. Analysis and the verb analyze are two other words you always spell wrong. After reading so much about chess it shouldn't happen.
Let's see what Cyrano has to say about it. I already used is previous analysis in blitz games and I think my command of the Philidor's defense is better now.
Happy Independence Day!
Desertfox
cyrano
♡ 68 ( +1 | -1 )
Qxd4 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 exd4 it's a line of the Philidor redence revived in the '60 by Larsen and Antoshin and it's very interesting.
After 4.Qxd4 (played by Morphy and Alekhine, but according to Kosten 4.Nxd4 is more precise) black has many continuations: 4...Nf6 4...Bd7 4...a6!?
and 4... Nc6 allowing a trasposition in the Ruy Lopez, Steinitz variation.
After 5.Bb5
(any queen move would be an admission of defeat)
5...Bd7 6.Bxc6 Bxc6 7.Nc3
(After 7.Bg5!? black can traspose into the main line with 7...Nf6 because after 8.Bxf6 Qxf6 9.Qxf6 gxf6 black's king's side pawns are weak but Black has compensation in the superior minor pieces or try 7...Be7!?, but 7...f6 is higly dubious)
7...Nf6 8.Bg5 Be7 9.0-0-0 0-0 10.The1
(the main line. Alekhine played 10.h4)
white is a little better.